Bush Legacy in Gaza

I would seriously like to see us "untangle" ourselves from this part of the world. Our citizens do not understand the culture; nor it seems do our politicians. Short of the oil...We wouldn't even be there.

No President is going to change how we are viewed in this region.

I will be there as an "instrument of foreign policy" in a few months for our new President.

My plan is to take care of my men and myself and pray this is the last time I ever have to be in that part of the world again. Surely the third time is a charm.

When Finnish mediator Martti Ahtisaari accepted this year's Nobel Peace Prize he pleaded to President-elect Barack Obama: Start pressing for Middle East peace as soon as you can.

He criticized world leaders — as well as the Israelis and Palestinians — for letting the violence continue.

"The international community and those in power are sitting there letting them destroy each other. They are allowing both parties to make their lives in the future even more complicated and difficult than it is today. In his speech, Ahtisaari insisted that wars and conflicts are not inevitable.

"Peace is a question of will. All conflicts can be settled and there are no excuses for allowing them to become eternal."

is this blog post some misguided attempt at humor...?
it is littered with so many mistakes / misstatements / simplifications / lies it is staggering.

the "invasion"--as macleod terms it--was pretty well executed, as international criminal saddam and his genocidal running buddies were removed from the international scene. they could no longer have designs on nuclear weapons which were previously discouraged ... attack most of his neighbors ... and generally be an unpleasant fellow

so dispensing with macleod's intensely stupid and dismissive "things are better than they were under Saddam Hussein" euphemism, lemme move on to other stupid things he said....

macleod falls into the 'blame israel trap', where israel bears the brunt for hamas' ineptness in effectively murdering as many israelis as possible. how dare israel try to stop people from trying to kill its citizens ?

the next bit of morbid comedy comes with "Bringing peace to the Middle East is no easy task but it's a pathetic testimony if you don't even try."
how about if you are a US president and meet with a suspected (now acknowleged) murderer of americans more often than any other world leader (check your employer's archives) and fail miserably... how'd that work out, scott ?
note that suicide bombing declines coincided with the security fence and the removal of a guy who paid suicide bombers (who knew crazed murderers believed in free market incentives, right?)

another ridiculous macleod statement: "Israeli and Palestinian politics have become more severely fragmented, making it more difficult to find leaders who can make necessary and courageous decisions and make them stick for peace."
perhaps those christmas in bethlehem stories were bogus. maybe scott should acknowledge that fatah remains a much better peace partner than a group with a name that rhymes with hamas and that gaza does not equal palestine--it's that square-rhombus thing.

there's more to dissect, but i'm only one man...
and i wanna watch regis and i'll lose my tivo buffer...

[...] Bush Legacy in Gaza: Mid East Blogs [...]

Thank you for the thoughtful and objective blog entry regarding the situation in Gaza. I think that all too often, the western media has been oversimplifying the situation into a black-and-white sound bite. I am so happy to finally read something where the author understands the complexity of the situation as well as the history of the region and its implications.

One last hit on Bush before he leaves office? You can lay the Iraq mess at the feet of Bush, but you (and those of your ilk--"blame Bush for everything") cannot credibly blame Bush for the Gaza mess. That debacle was around long before Bush and will be there long after Bush. The latest conflagration has everything to do with Hamas refusing to extend the ceasefire and exponentially increasing rocket fire from Gaza. It's pretty obvious that the Gazans have many self-inflicited wounds and seem to be morbid masochisits. If the Palestinians in the West Bank can live each day without shooting rockets at Israeli towns, then it seems the Gazans should be capable of the same thing. But they aren't. And that incapability has nothing to do with Bush and everything to do with the culture of martyrdom and hate that is inculcated by Hamas.

Your assumption, that the mess in Gaza is due to Bush's "neglect" and the policies of Israeli "hard liners" (who exactly? Sharon, who evacuated the Gaza strip? Olmert? Who are you referring to?) is nothing short of ridiculous.
The current mess is occurring exactly precisely because of simplistic and naive "Peace Initiatives", like the one at Camp David, which caused the Second Intifida.
For some reason Israel is the only country that is denied a right to self-defence, and according to some, even to exist. This conflict is a result of the Palestinians' refusal to accept peace, and the existence of Israel, as an alternative to their current Jihadist nihilism.

Scott:

Shut up, already.

"I would seriously like to see us "untangle" ourselves from this part of the world. Our citizens do not understand the culture; nor it seems do our politicians. Short of the oil...We wouldn't even be there." - Hammer66

"If the Palestinians in the West Bank can live each day without shooting rockets at Israeli towns, then it seems the Gazans should be capable of the same thing. But they aren't." - ctgx

The lack of understanding of cultures can lead to many a misunderstandings. I applaud Hammer66 on acknowledging that because that's been a fundamental criticism of Western-led invasions in the middle-east.

As for ctgx, my dear if only you had the understanding to differentiate the people from the administration maybe you would be able to see people as people, ending a cycle of ignorance facilitating racism and complete disregard for injustice, regardless of which side of a conflict (Israeli or Palestinian).

Lastly, as a reminder to those who claim the current administration has done nothing wrong since it entered, "Those in power to do something who choose do nothing amidst a crisis have made their decision and done their deeds."

"This is not a war on Hamas; it is a war on the Palestinian people," he said. "The Israeli politicians are using this bloodbath, which is the worst since 1967, for their election campaigns. This is insane."
Mustafa Barghouti, a Palestinian parliament member.

I think that pretty much explains it...

Zubbo,

I apprecitate being dear to you. And I do have the ability to distinguish the people from the administration. It was the Gazan people who elected Hamas, knowing full well Hamas's attitude towards Israel. It is the Gazans who lionize martyrdom. And if there is a cycle of ignorance, it's the cylce perpetuated by Hamas and bought into by many Gazans. It is ignorant to think Hamas can destroy the state of Israel, despite its best attemtps. It is ignorant to think the launching of rockets into Israeli towns won't bring a military response. It is ignorant to think calls for Arab and Muslim brotherhood will improve the Gazans' situation when that has consistently been untrue. At any rate, you can only negotiate with a government, not a people, and Hamas is the Gazan government, albeit one that is unwilling to negotiate.

Karim,

Israel is obviously attacking the Palestinians and not Hamas. That is why the West Bank has been under attack for days as well. Oh, wait. It isn't. Hmmmm... If anyone is attacking a "people," it's Hamas. It lobs undirected rockets into cities (not strategic targets) hoping to kill someone, a civilian, soldier, tourist, or whomever.

"things are better than they were under Saddam Hussein" is hardly the standard by which we should judge our performance in Iraq.

Since Saddam Hussein would still be in power if the U.S. hadn't invaded, isn't that exactly the standard we should use? "Better than they were under Saddam Hussein" wouldn't mean that the invasion was a success for the U.S., but it would mean that Iraqis were better off than they would have been if the invasion hadn't happened, which is also an important question. NB I don't think you can really say that Iraq is now better off than it was under Saddam, but it's not a crazy assertion to make, as it would have seemed in 2005.

The word that jumped out at me is in the last paragraph: Mediation. Yes, we must pursue peace, not war, in the Middle East. How can we bring the parties to the table? How can be help to broker a peace accord?

The chaos, the killings, the futility of the Arab-Israeli conflict is nothing but madness. We can do better than this barbaric behavior. We can learn how to be mature human beings and help others to become mature as well, whether they're individuals or nations.

We are given a precious gift called Life. Why is anyone willing to voluntarily give up this precious gift or take this gift from others? What are we thinking to continue war anywhere in the world?

Obama may be the person who will bring peace to the world. He is a mature man and he has the consciousness of peace. He can call on other peace makers including one of the greatest, Marshall Rosenberg -- an expert mediator and peace maker.

This insanity of war must stop! Our money, our policies, our armed forces, our consciousness must be geared to peace.

Jane Iddings, Blogger, GrowUpNow.info and BarackObamaRealMaturity.com

In 2008, in Israel, 17 people have been killed in attacks from Gaza. On day 3 of this all out "to death do us part" assault on Hamas by Israel, over 300 have died with over 1,000 wounded.

Bush is not to blame. Historically this part of the world has been besieged by generations on warmongers, haters, and shellshocked diplomats who recycle xenophobia successfully. Gaza is only 25 miles long and 7.5 miles wide. All of this bloodshed-- for WHAT?

Mankind is to blame. As for the timing of this assault not only on the Eve of Barack's presidency but during Channukah is horrible.

Thou shalt not kill.

cgtx,
"Israel is obviously attacking the Palestinians and not Hamas. That is why the West Bank has been under attack for days as well. Oh, wait. It isn't. Hmmmm... If anyone is attacking a "people," it's Hamas. It lobs undirected rockets into cities (not strategic targets) hoping to kill someone, a civilian, soldier, tourist, or whomever."
Hamas doesnt have any potent weapons in the first place and you are expecting them to pick out "strategic targets"?! All what Hamas has is some useless rockets that Israel use as an excuse to further its political goals. On the other hand, Israel, who has nothing but the highest tech in weaponary, keeps on killing civilians everytime it attacks with no guilty conscience at all. Every time it attacks many civilians are killed, most of the times the number of civilians killed far outnumber the number of militants killed and the latest lebanon war and the last intifada should serve as a clear proof of that.
Since 2001, at least, Israel has killed far more civilians than the boogy, terrorist, radicals, extremists (you name it) have killed, which proves without doubt that the biggest terrorist entity in the whole region is the Israeli army.

We'll have to see if Obama is happy with toeing the standard presidential line and laying off the Israelis. Doing so will eliminate any of the worldwide political/good will capital he inherited by simply winning the election.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

American policy is hostage to religious ideologies. Christian Fundamentalists believe Israel's expansion fulfills scripture and vote in blocks for the Republican. Jews believe God promised all of Palestine to them and vote in blocks for Democrats. They both are major financial contributors to the Democrats & Republicans (in exchange for Government support for Israel).

As long as Religion controls Arab politics, Israeli politics and American politics, there will never be peace. My God wants to sue them all for defamation.

I can't help but feel that if Hamas had been recognized as a legitimate government from the beginning, this might have been avoided. Hamas won't recognize Israel's right to exist? All right, let's all act like the two year olds we are and do the same thing to a legally and enthusiastically elected government. The only thing that strikes me as more similiar is the Obama election. People tired with years of corruption and thrilled to see someone who seemed to offer legitimate promises chose their representatives. Instead of treating these people seriously, we look at them as toddlers.

And to whoever said that Israel is using these missiles as an excuse, I would like to add that Hamas is using these missiles as a publicity stunt. They're clearly not that good at hitting anything, they could sneak a few men through the borders at a time and do more damage. These missiles are, in part, an attempt not to be forgotten. When they fly in numbers, they attract the attention of the entire world. On a grimmer note, it could be posssible that they're trying to garner the sympathy of millions of interested onlookers who look at death counts. I'm not saying that this is particularly mature of Hamas, but let's be partly glad that they're not doing anything that would do real damage to innocent populations. That wouldn't gain the same publicity, at least for now. Waiting for Israel to have an infant's temper tantrum is much better, and then Hamas doesn't have to pick up the tab for the sophisticated weaponry.

amercian has lost the sence of decency,

Blame Bush for lack of peace between Hamas and the Israelis? What a stretch! The situation there clearly is much too complex, too overwhelmed with history, too tangled in conflicting claims, too religious, too tribalistic, and way too weighed down with hatred of Jews to be blamed on Bush..of all people on whom to blame it.
To paraphrase Golda Meir, this conflict will not end until the conflagrants love their children more than they hate Jews, until they seek peace more than passionate inflamed rhetoric, until they cherish education more than rockets, until they value rule of law more than rule of opinion manipulation, intimidation, and corruption, until they see all people as worthy regardless of religion, until they see a future in deeper knowledge and exquisite reason (logos in Greek) more than in land, until, until.... Until can be a long time or it can be made shorter by motivating those who love Palestinians to work with massive determination to bring the average educational level of the vast Palestinian population to at least high school equivalency, to bring them access to jobs for which their creativity and ability to make passionate and determined commitment are highly valuable features. Until will be a long time unless cross cultural education teaches the commonalities among peoples instead of using differences to inflame. Until. Until. Until.
Remember Ireland. Remember Cosovo. Remember Croatia. Remember the fall of the USSR. Remember Mao and how the Chinese have evolved. Think about Vietnam and its evolution. Evolution of the Palestinians will happen. Who will educate them so that they can, of their own volition, choose constructive directions?

"it's hard to be optimistic that the latest one will finally silence the Palestinian bombers and rocketers so Israelis can live in peace. The Bush administration's inexcusable neglect is partly responsible for the carnage we're seeing in Gaza today"

Optimistic? No. Pessimistic. Silencing the Kassam rockets would signal victory for Israel in its aggressive war (to overthrow the democratically elected Hamas government).

Neglect? No. Intentional licence, to wage violent crime, chiefly the continuous armed robbery of Palestinian land and flooding that stolen land with 500,000 Israeli settlers, both violent war crimes. See, Prosecuting U.S. complicity in Israel settlement confiscations.

And, labeling Hamas a "terrorist" organization, because of its Kassam rockets and suicide bombers (in the past and now in the future once again). These acts, targeting Israeli civilians, are prima facie lawful belligerent reprisals, because Hamas can reasonable view the most of what Israel does in the conduct of its aggressive war as illegal under the laws of war (e.g., blockade of food and medicine, targeting infrastructure, indiscriminate targeting).

Israel's remedy, to protect its citizens, is to submit, and terminate its violent crimes (the goal of the reprisal). Using even more force, against the law enforcement action (the reprisals) is like bank robbers shooting at the police, just more violent crime.

Neglect? No. Lying. Labeling Hamas a "terrorist" organization, by concealing from official statements, Congressional testimony, public discourse, the law of belligerent reprisals, which justifies Hamas, their actions. This law un-labels Hamas a "terrorist" organization and re-labels them "law enforcement officers."

This law -- legalizing the targeted killing of innocent civilians -- the U.S. officially endorses, and so too U.K., France, Germany, Italy, Egypt, all of whom registered reservations supporting this law when they ratified Geneva Protocol-1.

By their lies, Bush&Co. wilfully led the violent international criminal conspiracy to aid and abet Israel's violent crimes (specific criminal intent), and facilitate them (general criminal intent). And by providing money and arms to Israel, Security Council vetoes and preemptive obstruction.

The rogue states Israel and the U.S. are anyway not parties to that 1977 Protocol, which purports to outlaw such reprisals among non-reserving treaty parties.

Under customary international law, it's lawful to conduct a belligerent reprisal against an ally of the party violating the laws of war, and in this case the U.S. is not merely an ally, the U.S. actively aids and abets Israel.

Is bombing the Chrysler Building next?

Reprisal details: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jksonc/docs/israel-us-war-blockade-reprisals.html

See, this is the problem with the morons called "journalists" who work for Time and the other idiots in newsrooms around the world. They completely lack historical perspective, moral clarity, or even a rudimentary understanding of the genocidal intentions of the Arabs. Or perhaps they're just willing to be complicit in it. Israel unilaterally and unconditionally withdraws from Gaza 3 years ago . . . and the next day, and over the ensuing 3 years, nothing but rockets and suicide bombers from Gaza. So based on this experience, Israel is supposed to withdraw from even MORE territory? If Israeli withdrawal brings neither the promised peace, nor the promised security, why should Israel (or anyone else on the planet with any logical reasoning ability) believe that further withdrawal will bring it? What bullsh**.

Weley Pruden nails it down firm, for all you anti-Semites on this board and in newsrooms around the world. From the Washington Times):

Tuesday, December 30, 2008

PRUDEN: It's time once more to blame the Jews

Wesley Pruden

ANALYSIS/OPINION:

The Israelis finally get enough of the constant rain of rockets on their border towns and villages, fired by Hamas thugs recognized by nearly everybody as international jackals, and strike back to stop it. Guess who the villains are.

Those international thugs have become expert at retail death, killing one or two Jews one day, occasionally three or four on another, but rarely enough to make the front pages in London or Paris, Washington or New York. Death-by-rocket in Ashkelon and other cities, towns and villages in southern Israel is bad, but like other urban inconveniences not something to "overreact" to. This is the inevitable message to Israel. The grim and unrelenting war in the Middle East can be relieved in the soft salons of the West by turning to the inside pages of the morning newspaper to read about a new restaurant or a review of the latest movie, or by changing the channel to watch a chef demonstrate how to make a fluffy souffle. The Israelis have no such luxury.

Life is not so nice and easy on the ground where "the peace process" is played out with death from the sky. Because the Hamas terrorists have perfected provocation as an art of war, the blame is attached to Israel by those always eager to "blame it on the Jews," and by a media unable to make distinctions and eager to draw moral equivalence between provocateur and the provoked.

"There was a shocking quality to Saturday's attacks," the New York Times observed of Israel's emphatic response to the incessant rocket attacks, which began in broad daylight as police cadets were graduating, women were shopping at the outdoor market, and children were emerging from school. The "overreaction" of the Israelis soon ruined this happy scene of domestic tranquility, turning it into "a scene of chaotic horror, with rubble everywhere, sirens wailing, and women shrieking as dozens of mutiliated bodies were laid out on the pavement ... so that family could identify them."

"War is hell," said old Tecumseh Sherman, the firebug of Atlanta, but only a brute is untouched by the suffering of innocents, including Palestinian women and children. But much of the rest of the world long ago decided that it would no longer be moved by the suffering of the Israelis, nor impressed by their patience in the face of extreme provocation. The Israelis are friends of the Great Satan, after all, and so deserve whatever retail death their enemies can deal. We must give the provocateur a pass.

The provocation is so unrelenting that it has become a bit boring to read about and tedious to talk about. The accounts of the Israeli response take ritual notice of the provocation, but only with statistics, dry to anyone not on the receiving end of the rockets: " ... the highest one-day toll in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in decades ... ." There are few dispatches telling of a Jewish mother embracing her dead child in the hideous glare of a rocket, of wailing sirens, of the rubble of a Jewish village with tendrils of acrid smoke climbing to heaven in protest. Just the impersonal statistics.

Nevertheless, there is another reality on the ground available to anyone who looks. One place to look is Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon, hard by the border with Gaza. The doctors have moved the most essential wards underground. So many rockets have targeted the hospital and the neighborhood that the hospital now takes only emergency cases. Jewish and Palestinian children lie side by side in an underground ward. "We treat whoever needs to be treated," says Dr. Ron Lobel, the deputy director of the hospital.

Precision bombing is a modern science, actually more art than science. The Palestinians typically station their missile-launching sites in residential neighborhoods, close to schools and hospitals, counting on the Israelis to avoid them. A video posted on the Internet, offering a pilot's view of his bombing run, depicts a perfect hit, taking out a rocket site in such a residential neighborhood with little "collateral damage." Not every hit is a perfect score, but civilized men try.

The tragedy is that none of this is necessary. The Palestinians could have a two-state solution if they would only take it. But they are determined to win a one-state solution bought at the price of a second Holocaust. This is the reality that Israel's critics in the West willfully refuse to acknowledge. The Jews can expect to be made the villains of the piece - again.

Zionism 105, Stay away from strongest but try to destroy the weaker opponents, much like Pearl Harbor attack, lets bomb the Pacific fleet and what the hell with what comes after, chivalry does not have any meaning in Zionism vocabulary!

http://harakka-1.blogspot.com/
How much is life worth?
If you're Palestinian, not much. That's the message that the international community is sending out. The death toll from Israel bombardment of Gaza has now reached 350+ in 4 days, and yet leaders in the international community talk about Israel's right to defend itself! Defend itself from what exactly?
Hamas is stupid and irresponsible for sending out those rockets. But for the love of God, these rockets have rarely amount to anything. As of April 2008, 13 Israelis have ever been killed by qassam rockets. That is 13 in 7 years. That doesn't mean that it is acceptable, but Israel has murdered 350 Palestinians in 4 days! This is insane! And the world talks about Israel's right to defend itself. More Israelis will die in car accidents this year.. should Israel be allowed to bomb every car out there, to defend itself.
If you want to read more about the effects of qassam rockets, go to:
http://www.cjpme.ca/documents/35%20En%20Qassam%20Rocket%20Attacks%20v.1.pdf

Given Bush's track record and considering the current state of just about everything he actually has focused his attention on, I'd say it's probably a 'Godsend' that Bush has chosen to ignore the Israeli-Palestinian-Gaza situation; as bad as things admittedly are, I suspect they'd only be worse had Bush chosen to get involved.

Personally, I believe that Israel's strategy of excessive retaliation is foolish and misguided. It has been more than amply proven that such tactics will not stop the likes of Hammas; on the contrary, it usually just incites more. Worse yet, it is playing right into their hands; by launching large-scale, organized military strikes against an unofficial, ill-defined and 'underground' militia in repsonse to repeated, small-scale provocative attacks by Hammas et al, Israel just winds up arousing sympathy for its attackers. Of course, the fact that Hammas' actions provoked and commenced the instant conflict somehow gets forgotten about, thanks to people who, like some of the posters here, apparently think that, as between two parties to a conflict, the side that inflicts the most damage (or wins)is necessarily the culpable one at fault. I suppose they also think that Saddam Hussein was the "innocent" party in the first (1990-1991) Gulf War, Nazi Germany was the "innocent" party in WWII and France was the "innocent" party in the Napoleonic war with Russia.

On the other hand, Israel's current posture towards Hammas would appear to be an understandably (though still misguided) defensive overreaction to the never-ending barrage of largely unprovoked, instigative and vicious attacks its citizens continue to endure on an ongoing basis at the hands of Hammas and other Arab terrorist and paramilitary organizations, to which the rest of the World predictably turns a blind eye.

What I'd like to know is, where are all those "humanitarian" protestors when Hammas breaks yet another cease-fire by firing rockets at Israeli citizens just because they feel like it? What do you suppose they would have to say if some group of radicals in Canada suddenly decided to make a new past-time of taking pot-shots at us by firing rockets over our border?

Israel needs to realize that it is essentially fighting a guerilla war, and you cannot win a guerilla war using traditional Western military strategy. It is like trying to stomp out an army of ants with a herd of elephants; they'll trample the grass, but many of the ants will still escape, and the neighbors will get annoyed and accuse you of creating an eyesore. This is a lesson our own leaders, epitomized by George Bush, have also sadly failed to learn.