Comments on: On Thanksgiving, not much to give thanks for in Gaza

By: priorityforall

priorityforall — Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:32:47 +0000

World especially US should force Israel to stop aggression and harrassing innocent civilians who are living in worse than jail city from last half century. They are deprived of every single daily life necessasity.

They need rehabilitation from half century physical and mental torture. What can one expect from these totally dishearted people. No body wants war nor i favor any kinds of war or any kinds of terrorism from any side. but They will not through flowers . Therefore only solution is stop aggression and provide rehabilitation lift of all kinds of blockade.

By: jacobblues

jacobblues — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:47:55 +0000

And for those who think that HAMAS has anything but total control of Gaza, here is an article by Amira Hass, after she was forced out of Gaza by HAMAS.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1045746.html

By: persianadvocate

persianadvocate — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 05:53:40 +0000

"And Nick, no, my mind was made up after HAMAS decided to continue its war three and a half years after Israel pulled out. Amazingly, I pounded the table for the pullout. We'll I've been wrong before."
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Yoni,
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In the past, I discussed this issue with either yourself or someone else. In an October 6, 2004, interview with Haaretz, Dov Weissglas, Sharon's chief of staff, declared: "The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process... When you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Disengagement supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians."
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The apparent withdrawal to which you are referring was viewed by many as a political attempt by Israel to scuttle much of the peace process, international laws, and any compromises due to the Palestinians. Indeed, this view was affirmed when Sharon's chief of staff rendered the quote above.
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Further, Israel's withdrawal was certainly a weakening of Israeli presence in the Strip. However, by no means was it a complete withdrawal. The IDF retained complete control over air and water space in and around Gaza. The borders of the Strip are wholly controlled by Israel. Flybys, some so low that they break windows, occurred from the first day of the "withdrawal", terrorizing the Palestinians left within the Strip.
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So, no... it is not proper to simply make your mind up without viewing the totality of the facts.

By: Curtain Around Gaza « Roses and Razorwire

Curtain Around Gaza « Roses and Razorwire — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 03:40:22 +0000

[...] in Gaza are getting worse and worse, hunger and disease are widespread. Tim McGirk has a good post on this on Time’s Middle East Blog. Israel is now even keeping international reporters out, [...]

By: shellius

shellius — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:01:13 +0000

By the way, Mr. McGirk, thanks for this article. Why aren't there feature stories in TIME magazine about what the Israelis are doing to the people of Gaza? The American media is frighteningly incoherent and biased on this topic. People have noticed and we are very unhappy about it. Some of us are giving up on the AMerican media altogether.

By: shellius

shellius — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:56:17 +0000

Olmert and his rightwing predecessors are monsters. The myths and propaganda that come out of Israel's leaders is astounding. If you look online you can find truthful stories about what is going on, but obviously, from reading the comments here, ignorance still prevails. It's a moral failing to starve children and deny the sick medicine because a few members of Hamas send rockets into Israel that make big holes in the ground and harm no one. It's a moral failing when the world stands by and watches the systematic starving and abuse and apartheid of a million people. Despite all the propaganda even here, there are those of us who are watching and gathering information and making sure that we write about what is going on in Gaza and with Israel's foul, corrupt, government. And you can quote me on that. I'm a US citizen and I do not appreciate the complicity our government has had in these crimes against humanity. Why won't the UN DO SOMETHING?!

By: bloodofpatriots

bloodofpatriots — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:24:07 +0000

bsaber,

No, I don't think it's the hungry children of Gaza who are murdering Israelis. It's their parents and older siblings who are doing that, either by direct participation or through their support of terrorists.

To restate: When they're tired of seeing their kids go to bed hungry, they can stop murdering Israelis, let the checkpoints re-open, and get their kids fed. It says a lot of terrible things about Palestinians that, as a whole, they'd rather murder Jews than feed their own children.

By: yboxman

yboxman — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:11:34 +0000

And while you are drawing analogies to the Nazis... How do you think the U.S would have coped with continued "resistince" to Anglo-Saxon occupation of Western Germany? A plan for something like that, very closely resembling what Saddam Hussein had planned in Iraq was already in place (read "the man with the Iron heart" by Harry turtledove).

The only reason you never had to face that is because Stalin did the dirty work of scaring the Germans into your arms Via Ethnic cleansing of 15 million Germans out of Eastern Europe, Massive deportations to the Siberian Gulags and the Stassi Police state in East Germany. Had the Germans (and to a lesser extent the Japanese) not faced National extinction at his hands YOU would have had to face unsavory choices.

It's easy to be moralistic when you never need to make tough choices... But given your record in Iraq and Afghanistan and the ongoing civilian body count your troops are raking do you realy think you have any right to preach? U.S airforce raids in The pakistan-Afghanistan borderlands has so far caused over 20,000 casulties- the overwhelming majority civilians. And somehow your troops manning roadblocks in iraq seem to be shooting up far more civilians than ours- a coincidence?

And is it also a coinicidence that Sunni insurgent regions in the early days of the insurgency were cut off from power supply and water while allied regions recieved copious amounts?

I won't even go into your counterinsurgency record in Vietnam and Korea. One ended well and was well worth the steps needed to achieve victory. And victory, and a massive improvement of lives for South Koreans could not be achieved in any other way. The other... was not. But could you know in advance? Or could a more vigorous approach preserve South Vietnam and Korea as corrupt, but liberalizing authoritarian regimes like South Korea and Taiwan? We'll never know.

By: yboxman

yboxman — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 07:38:17 +0000

Actually Nathan, the West bank economy has been doing BETTER since the Seperation barrier was constructed.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WestBankGDP3.png
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To be sure, drawing a direct correlation between the barrier and the modest economic recovery is problematic since the fence was juxtaposed with more active security measures (massive arrests, targeted assasinations, weapon collection, curfews in the palestinian cities...)- you know, all the stuff you love to hate.
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The bottom line is that ending the fighting through Israeli "victory" improved the economic conditions of West Bank Palestinians- even if that was not the intention.
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Is your ideological bubble burst yet?
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I won't dignify the Hitler analogy with a response. Hitler aimed at enslaving all of Eastern Europe and doing away with it's Slav and Jewish inhabitants. I aim at preserving those Areas of Israel where A jewish makority exists Vs external threats.
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P.S. BTW I'm voting for Livini. Unfortunately it looks like Bibi (who still haven't given up on the whole land of Israel concept) will probably win- Mostly because Livni is not exhibiting enough toughness.

By: jacobblues

jacobblues — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:07:22 +0000

You were done before you started Nathan.
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Yes, HAMAS was considered a terrorist organization before they were elected. This wasn't a self-fulfilling prophecy, but a label pasted on due to the organizations own actions, notably their use of suicide bombers on civilian targets. The group's pride in such actions was evidenced by its college organization that set up a 3-D walk-through in Bir-Zeit university, complete with flying and bloodied limbs and busted baby carraiges.
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Here's where your argument falls flat. HAMAS was not locked under a rock, but offered an out. Stop their violence, accept previous Israeli and PA agreements, and accept Israel as an independent Jewish state.
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We're still waiting for them to agree to that. The best, very best, that HAMAS was willing to do was a five month so-called cease fire where they continued to launch rockets at Israeli civilians, albeit at a lower level than before.
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Sorry to burst your bubble Nate, but such violence is HAMAS' MO, not a petulent reaction to a so-called snub. Amazing though, how you're able to rationalize their violence, but Israel trying to protect itself from such attacks becomes the equivilent of the Nazi's.
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Sad, but it appears that the only Jew people like you are willing to live with are the ones who get to cower and get murdered by terrorists. Then, you can wave some hero banners as a 2-year-old is orphaned all because his parents were Jews.
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And Nick, no, my mind was made up after HAMAS decided to continue its war three and a half years after Israel pulled out. Amazingly, I pounded the table for the pullout. We'll I've been wrong before.