A blog about life in the hottest and holiest region in the world.

On Thanksgiving, not much to give thanks for in Gaza

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IN Gaza, food's going fast.

Photo credit: MAHMUD HAMS/AFP/Getty Images

As you sit down to a Thanksgiving feast, please spare a thought for the starving Palestinians of Gaza. There are 1.5 million of them, most of them living hand to mouth, or on UN handouts, because Israel has them under siege.

It's a vicious cycle, one that's being repeated every few months or so. The Islamic militants do something crazy, Israel strikes back, the militants fire missiles into southern Israel and then the entry points into Gaza slam shut.  Food and the basic necessities of life are squeezed off to the barest minimum.

And who suffers? Not the militants, not Hamas nor Islamic Jihad. As usual, it's the people of Gaza who are dazed with hunger. My friend Azmi, who has diabetes, tells me he is running out of insulin, and he can't find any pharmacy or hospital that still has supplies.

Dialysis machines are breaking down in the hospital (the rare moments when there's electricity to run them) and there are no spare parts to replace them.  Bakeries have run out of flour. “I've been to the Cairo zoo,” says Azmi, “and I swear those animals are treated better there than we humans are in Gaza.”

Many stories are written about the smugglers' tunnels that honeycomb Gaza's southern border with Egypt. We write about how the smugglers bring Viagra and tiger cubs through the tunnels, as though Gaza were some big exotic shopping mall, a Neiman Marcus on the Mediterranean. But the truth his, all the stuff coming through the tunnel is expensive because it is taxed by the smugglers, and beyond the reach of most Gazans.

In the Third Act of this sorry performance, the international community and the UN start complaining loudly, and Israel lets in a few dozen trucks of food, or turns the fuel spigot on for a few hours to reduce the international outcry and show what good guys they are. That's what happened today. The Israelis let in 40 trucks. It's hardly enough. At a minimum, says Chris Guness, an UNRWA spokesman, “We need to bring in 15 trucks a day, every day.” Adds UN Humanitarian Coordinator for the Palestinian Territories Maxwell Gaylard, “This is an assault on human dignity with severe humanitarian implications.”

Then we have Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, obviously irritated by Gaza questions during his valedictory tour to Washington. He dismissed the near-famine in Gaza as nothing more than the whining of a few cry-babies, as if he expected them to make souffles out of sand, soups from stone.

Israel wants to draw a curtain around Gaza so nobody can see how it's punishing the Palestinians. That's why, for the past two weeks, they've barred the foreign press from entering Gaza.  The reason, says the Israeli military, is that catch-all phrase “security”, and it is pronounced with arrogant solemnity as if to say ‘Take it from us, we have our very good reasons. Don't challenge us.”

Well, the foreign press did challenge the Israeli government. We took the matter to the high court, petitioned Olmert and got our editors to write letters of complaint. Some journalists talk of chartering a boat from Cyprus and trying to run the Israeli naval blockade. These are desperate tries, but this is  a violation of the press's freedom, and the world's right to know. This is the sort of shameful attitude you might expect from Zimbabwe's Dictator Robert Mugabe, not Israel. Please.

Choking the life out of the Gazans isn't going to make them turn against their Hamas overlords. On the contrary, says my friend Azmi, “Everything that Israeli does isn't harming Hamas in Gaza. It's making them stronger.”  Starving Palestinians and depriving them of medicine certainly isn't going to make them like Israelis, or their supporters in Washington, any better.

Happy Thanksgiving.

By Tim McGirk/Jerusalem

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  • 26

    Tim,

    Your blogs reflect a man who is in touch with his reality. Kudos to you for braving this controversial subject. I wish for your voice to be ever more vocal amongst the pantheon of great TIME journalists.

    The Israeli government has long been on a crusade of punishing and muting the Palestinians while crudely sweeping away any of the evidence vis a vis some sheisty tactics. Enough is enough. Journalism and justice runs hand in hand. It is the media's responsibility to rectify the truths. Not the propaganda I see echoed by your dissenters above.

  • 27

    see attached links to world Health organization (http://www.who.int/countries/isr/en/) and http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/health/factcheck+glasgow+worse+than+gaza/2320267

    Bottom line:
    1. Life expectancy in Gaza is 71.07/73.34 years (for 2007).
    2. Life expectancy in Egypt: 58/60.
    3. Jordan: 69/74.
    4. Glasgow Britain: 69.3/76.2.
    5. Israel: 79/82.

    I could also show you the average caloric intake, the mortality rate, investment in health care, doctors for population, etc. But the bottom line is the same. No, it's not fun to be a Palestinian, certainly not in Gaza. Yes, some Gazans who lack the proper connections are facing the possibility of Malnutrition- though that is largely due to improvable problems of internal distribution rather than net food imports. But the safety net for Palestinians in Gaza provided by UNWRA and other PA foreign funding is FAR better than what Egypt or Jordan provides to their citiznes- (or what the U.K provides to some of it's citizens....) And it is, to a certain point, unconditional on the performance of the government, economy or relations with Israel.

    Since that safety net is based on Charity, rather than a real economy, it has two very bad side effects which endanger the long-term existence of both us and the Palestinians:

    1. Since a Gazan recieves the level of aid sufficient to feed his children regardless of how many he has there is no incentive for family planning. Thus, while birth rates have dramatically declined across the Arab world, reaching 2.8 children for woman in Egypt (less than us!) the childbirth rate in Gaza stands at 5.79 and shows no indication of declining over the past 5 years. Now obviously a population cannot continue growing indefinately on international aid with limited space and resources (water...). If the Gazan population doubles every 20 years then in 40 years there will be 6 million Palestinians in Gaza. In 60 years there will be 12 million (if these numbers seem impossible bear in mind that Gaza had 150,000-200,000 people in 1948... and many fled to egypt in 1956 and later) Currently 70% of the Gazan's water is being supplied by Israel. Israel uses roughly 50% of it's water for drinking water and draws water faster than it is being replenished. Rainsfall in the Middle east has been steadily declining over the past 30 years. Do the math.

    2. Since the economic situation of the average Palestinian is only marginally based on his choice of government or the choices his government makes there is minimal popular feedback back into the decision making system and it is very difficult to rach a critical threshold of pressure on the Hamas leadership. If the life of the average Gazan is (barely) bearable then he WILL hate Israel for limiting his life- but he will not feel impelled to protest against Hamas decisions leading to Israeli actions. This means that the pressure that toppled Miloshevik in Serbia or which caused Arafat to surrender in Beirut cannot be replicated in Gaza- Unless the rules by which UNWRA and Israel operate change radically to condition humanitarian aid on proper behavior by the Gazan government.

    This situation can't continue indefinately. And the longer we wait before we pull the plug and condition aid to Gaza on both rational government behaviour and family planning the more horrific the resulting human tedgedy will be (imagine 12 million starving and thirsty Palestinans rushing the Gaza-Israel border into machine-gun fire...). Obviously this must be done gradually to ameliorate the withdrawal symptoms. But it must be done NOW.

    P.S. A final point: so far 20 Israelis have been killed while operating or guarding the border crossing points where supplies are being transferred to Gaza. We left Gaza 3 years ago. Isn't it time to pass the buck onto Mubarack? Why can't supplies enter through Egyptian Rafah?.

  • 28

    Interesting how blockades are maintained. In today's Ha'Aretz, we see how HAMAS really does control the border into Gaza:
    .
    Last update - 18:59 30/11/2008
    .

    Hamas blocks haj pilgrims granted visas by PA from leaving Gaza
    .
    By Reuters
    .
    Tags: israel news, saudi arabia
    .
    The Islamist Hamas movement is preventing hundreds of Muslim pilgrims from leaving the Gaza Strip for the annual Islamic pilgrimage in Mexxa because of internal political squabbling, drawing unusual criticism from Arab countries.
    .
    Hundreds of Hamas supporters, meanwhile, protested outside the Gaza Strip's border crossing with Egypt on Sunday to demand Saudi Arabia grant them permission to take part in the haj.
    .
    The Saudis have granted visas to some 3,000 Gazans who registered for the haj through the Palestinian Authority, which is based in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and headed by President Mahmoud Abbas, leader of the secular Fatah faction.
    .
    But when the pilgrims approached the Rafah border crossing between the Gaza Strip and Egypt on Saturday, Hamas security forces turned them way.
    .
    A Hamas source said the group would allow those registered with the Palestinian Authority to pass through Rafah only if Saudi Arabia also granted visas to some 3,000 pilgrims who signed up for the haj with Gaza's Hamas-led government.
    .
    "We should all go or no one should go," demanded protester Masoud Abu Oamr, a 45-year-old merchant who says he registered for the haj with Hamas.
    .
    Protesters sang, "Oh God, We answered your call", a chant used during the haj in which Muslims retrace the footsteps of the Prophet Mohammad. Pilgrims from Gaza hoped to arrive in the next few days.
    .
    Tensions between the rival factions have been on the rise since Hamas boycotted reconciliation talks in Cairo earlier this month, irritating Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
    .
    A Hamas lawmaker in the Gaza Strip, Atef Adwan, drew a hostile response from Abbas aides after being quoted as saying the denial of visas to Hamas supporters could stir opposition within Saudi Arabia to the regime.
    .
    "Making such threats against Saudi Arabia reflects the extent of their isolation," senior Abbas aide and Fatah official Ahmad Abdel-Rahman said of Hamas.
    .
    Adwan later issued a statement saying he was misquoted. He said he made no comments hostile to Saudi Arabia, a powerhouse Hamas is reluctant to alienate.
    .
    A Saudi foreign ministry official responded to Adwan's reported remarks.
    .
    "Saudi Arabia looks at all Palestinians as equals and has granted thousands from all over the occupied territories, including the Gaza Strip, entry visas to perform haj," the official was quoted by the Saudi state news agency as saying.
    .
    "They [visas] were delivered to the Palestinian Authority," the report said. "All of the kingdom's entry points are ready to welcome them and facilitate for them performing the ritual.
    .
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1042267.html

  • 29

    I just created an account to thank Tim for the posts that he writes. For simply telling the truth about what is going on in Palestine in an age and time where doing that could cost you your career. It is really amazing that the story of the Palestinian people who have been subjected to all kinds of wrongs and hardships from ethnic cleansing to apartheid in the last 60 years remain largely unknown because there are a lot of people out there who simply do not want it to be known.
    I do not find it one bit surprising that the zionist users here keep on defending Israel no matter what. No matter what Israel do, they will keep on justifying its crimes or, if the crime is too appaling to defend, claim that such crimes happen everywhere else and not just by the Israeli government.
    I have been posting on political forums for not less than 8 years and I have never seen this behavior change and therefore I do not expect it to change nor do I care if it changes.
    All what I care about is that truth must be told. Thank you Tim. God bless.

  • 30

    "I do not find it one bit surprising that the zionist users here keep on defending Israel no matter what."

    Well, I thought that I was past being suprised by anti-israelis never letting the facts confuse them...

    But this time even my credulity is strained. From your account name I take it you are Egyptian.

    So perhaps you can tell me- If you are so overwrought by the "Crimes" we are commiting by closing our borders to A hostile territory that is rocketing oour cities and murdering the people who tried to keep them supplied with essentials over the last three years then why doesn't YOUR country open it's borders to Gaza?

    After all if Egypt did that the "humanitarian crisis" would be over and the Gazan's would no longer be imprisoned because they could travel to the rest of the world through Egypt, right?

    I don't expect you to answer... But I hope that maybe, just maybe, the next time you look in a mirror you will think about this on a factual rather than ideological level.

  • 31

    Um Tim, who wants to draw a curtain around Gaza?
    .
    Hamas tells Haaretz journalist Amira Hass to leave Gaza
    .
    By The Associated Press
    .
    Veteran Haaretz journalist Amira Hass, who traveled by boat to Hamas-ruled Gaza last month in defiance of Israel's blockade of the territory, returned to Israel Monday after Hamas officials instructed her to leave because of security concerns.
    .
    The award-winning reporter crossed into Israel on Monday afternoon. She said Hamas officials did not provide details about the alleged dangers to her safety.
    .
    Hass defied Israel's ban on its citizens entering Gaza, in place since the outbreak of Israeli-Palestinian fighting in 2000. The danger to Israelis was highlighted after Palestinian militants, including those from Hamas, captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit in a cross-border raid in 2006. Shalit remains in captivity, presumably held by Hamas.
    .
    Israel also maintains a blockade on Gaza, imposed after Hamas seized power there last year.
    .
    Hass arrived in Gaza on Nov. 8 on a boat carrying pro-Palestinian activists who were trying to draw attention to hardship in Gaza as a result of the border closures. Israel let the boats through, but on Monday turned back a Libyan freighter that was to deliver 3,000 tons of humanitarian aid to Gaza.
    .
    Hass said she had hoped to stay in Gaza until January.
    .
    Shadowy Gaza groups have kidnapped reporters in the past. However, no journalists have been kidnapped since Hamas seized power.
    .
    Security officials from Hamas accompanied Hass while she was in Gaza. Hass said she did not request Hamas escorts.
    .
    Hamas spokesmen were not available for comment on Monday.
    .
    Hass, known for her sympathetic coverage of the Palestinians, is well known in the Gaza Strip. She wrote a book about Gaza and lived in the territory for several years. She currently lives in the West Bank town of Ramallah.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1042654.html

  • 32

    It's a shame Hamas holds Gaza's population hostage. That's the charitable interpretation. The cynical one is that they deserve it for supporting the genocidal Hamas regime.

  • 33

    Zionism 101, blame rape victims instead of rapists!

  • 34

    Anti-Zionism 101: Help the rapist and then complain when the victim crushes his testicles and restrain her from finishing the job.

    Done with the infantile B.S yet?

  • 35

    Too much for killing a golding egg laying goose, starve the Palestinian to death dude!

  • 36

    So what exactly are Israel's obligations in Gaza according to international law?? Take a look at http://www.globallawforum.org/UserFiles/File/lawbooknovember.pdf or

    http://www.globallawforum.org/ViewPublication.aspx?ArticleId=87
    for an executive summary of the same article..

    This briefing paper refutes, one by one, the claims that Israel is violating international law in the Gaza Strip. At the same time the paper explains the serial violations of international law by the Palestinians in Gaza and by Hamas in particular.

  • 37

    [...] when it comes to issues of justice for the Palestinian people, most western governments pretend the hideous collective punishment of one and a half million people isn’t [...]

  • 38

    You guys need to learn how to use proper formating on this terrible format.
    .
    Anyway, let me spare you all this back and forth and just summarize everyone's opinions.
    .
    Israeli position:
    .
    We are at war with Hamas! Collatoral damage is not our problem. Egypt has a border with Gaza so let them deal with it. Hamas can declare peace at any time and we'll open the borders again. Now go away!
    .
    Problems with Israeli position:
    .
    Callous, short-sighted, narrow-minded, childish, and obtuse. Ignores the fact that blockades and sanctions hurt the people and not the rulers. Uses Egyptian border for plausible deniability even though Israel has enough security at the borders to leave them open for humanitarian aide. Thinks the people can be coerced by hunger into voting Hamas out even though Hamas won't be holding elections any time soon.
    .
    Hamas Position:
    .
    It's all Israel's fault. They should go to hell. Look at the poor Palestinian civilians suffering while we fight against the evil aggressor! Watch as I now launch a hopelessly ineffective missle on Israel!
    .
    Problems with Hamas position:
    .
    Lunacy. Equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot.
    .
    Media position:
    .
    How dare Israel keep me from exploiting a perfectly good crisis! This media blockade needs to end immediately!
    .
    Problems with Media position:
    .
    Other than exploiting suffering? Not much. The media exploits everything else anyway. Let them exploit this one. At least it brings attention to the situation.
    .
    My position
    .
    Everybody is retarded. If Israel doesn't want to man the checkpoints then perhaps someone else should do it. Or, better yet, just have the UN deliver humanitarian aide by air or sea. Israeli soldiers are walking targets, so leave them out of it.
    .
    End the suffering without giving excuses. Period.

  • 39

    From the article posted by Jacob Blues:
    .
    Israel let the boats through, but on Monday turned back a Libyan freighter that was to deliver 3,000 tons of humanitarian aid to Gaza.
    .
    Someone please explain Israel's rationale for turning a humanitarian vessel away. And please don't tell me it's because the Palestinian people need to suffer until they vote Hamas out of office. The Palestinians won't vote Hamas out because Hamas won't hold elections.

  • 40

    Why did Israel turn back a Libyan vessel Nathan? Well let's see, probably because Libya is in a state of war with Israel and has been for several decades.
    .
    Given that Libya is a dictatorial police state run by Col. Khaddafi, who claimed power in a coup, and has both directed terrorist acts in the past and supported a wide range of terrorist groups, I can see why Israel would be loath to let a Libyan ship anywhere near the Israeli coast line. One needs to go only as far back as the Karine-A to figure out why.
    .
    I'll also go out on a limb here Nathan and say that the planned run by the Jordanian branch of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood will face a similar Israeli response.

  • 41

    Thanks for the formatting Nathan!
    .
    Rationale for preventing Libyan ship entry into Gaza:
    .
    1. Libya is officialy at war with Israel in spite of it's reapproachment with the West.
    .
    2. Gaza is at active war with Israel and is launching missiles at Israel (which makes it LEGAL to blockade their coast).
    .
    3. Boats can be used to transport large, long range missiles, which cannot be constructed in Gaza or smuggled through Egyptian tunnels (at least for now).
    .
    4. Checking all boats approaching Gaza would be costly, manpower intensive, dangerous for Israelis checking the boats, and easy to evade.
    .
    5. The Israel-Egypt peace treaty, as guranteed by the U.S and the U.N, obligates them to prevent the movement of arms, terrorists, drugs, etc, into Israel OR Gaza across the border. While their application of this responsibility has been "slightly" less than perfect their is a certain limit beyond which they cannot pass without endangering U.S aid and more significantly without Israel either launching a millitary incursion into Gaza or turning off the water-which would lead to 1.5 million Gazans fleeing into Egypt and destabilization of the regime (which Israel does not want of course- one reason we haven't done it yet).
    .
    6. The bottom line is that it is better for Israel to have the Egypt-Gaza border the primary supply route for Gaza.
    .
    As for your solution... Well, actually I think it is not bad. Obviously we can't trust the U.N to man the border crossings (since they would not be dilligent at preventing infiltration into Israel) but if Gaza must be fed then the best solution would be air supply from Israeli fields (so the cargo can be inspected). Of course, this won't happen.
    .
    Why? For the same reason Egypt won't consider supplying Gaza. Because the P.A, Hamas, Egypt and the Arab league all want to keep Gaza attached to Israel (as a way of eroding the Jewish state) and will prevent any pragmatic solution that will ease the suffering of Gazans without screwing up Israel.

  • 42

    Nathan, I have a major problem with your above analysis. Mainly, you presuppose that HAMAS position is insane when its entirely not true.
    .
    HAMAS may be ruthless, but they're not insane. The use of Qassams may fall far short as a military weapon in terms of outright destruction, but that's not its only purpose. Rather, it is a weapon of terror aimed at the citizens of Sderot, and now towns further north like Ashkelon. While the casualty to fire ratio is extremely low, HAMAS strategy forces Israel to respond to protect its civilians with a huge expenditure of resources, in manpower, effort, and funds, all with modest results, at best. Moreover, this is a daily occurance even through the so-called ceasefire over the past several months.
    .
    So what does Israel do? This question has been repeated ad-infinitum. Return fire only brings international complaints. Safety structures are enormously expensive and provide only limited security, and does nothing to calm the fears of the Israeli civilians. Invading Gaza to fight HAMAS and the other Palestinian terrorist groups will be even more costly. So what can Israel do as a means of making this violent assault on Israeli civilians cost something to the Palestinians. This is what's pretty much left. Or, Israel can go the Grozny route. Which, once its over provide a flow of goods to those who're left standing.
    .
    When you get off your self absorbed pedestal, you can ask yourself why the idea of opening the Egyptian border is so far fetched, when Egypt already allows several hundred, perhaps up to 1,000 tunnels to cross under the border between Egypt and Gaza.

  • 43

    Nathan,
    .
    Israeli position:
    What you fail to realize is that cutting off Gaza from Israel is a LONG-TERM Israeli interest. Regardless of current issues of rockets and Hamas the ground facts are that Gaza is going to be a black hole of a failed state regardless of who is in charge. The more U.N aid flows in the more the black hole will expand. Making sure that when they finally collapse (when international conditions will end or curtail this aid) they won't drag us down with them is, or should be, our number one priority.
    .
    Media position: my main problem with their complaint about the "blockade" is that for the Media there IS no blockade. Or they have to do to enter Gaza ienter Egypt at Nitzana and then enter Gaza at Rafah. This CAN be done- it just means that they have to spend an extra 2Hrs driving and maybe spend the night in Gaza.
    .
    When you have a bunch of pampered, first-world journalists comparing themselves to the assasinated Zimbabewe opposition because they can't invest the minimum to do their jobs... Well that smacks of Hypocrisy.
    .
    Nathan Position:
    Just end the suffering! Very American. And totally disregards the complexity of the situation.

  • 44

    Other simpilistic Americanisms:
    .
    "Just give peace a chance! You make peace with your enemies, not you friends!"
    "Peace requires RISKS and SACRIFICES"*Just from Israelis of course. Not Americans*
    .
    Result: Arafat. A 80,000 strong terrorirst Millita in the West Bank. 400 dead Israelis BEFORE the 2000 Intifada broke out.
    .
    "We can't allow extermists to hijack the peace process!"
    Result: keeping Israeli forces out of the West Bank for 3 years during which suicide bombers wrecked havoc an Israeli cities, killing 1,200 people. Ongoing warfare leading to the death of over 5,000 Plaestinians (and 1,000 in internal fighting). Body count when Israel finally took back control of the West Bank: 30 Isralei soldiers. 500 Palestinians (about 70% fighters). And it could have been done in the first WEEK of the 2000 Intifada.
    .
    "Palestinians deserve democracy just like everybody else! Saying otherwise is racism!"
    .
    Result: Hamas elected to power... and the Humanitarian crisis we are facing now.
    .
    Bottom line: Have you considered you might be wrong? If you are and we act as you propose guess who deals with the fallout? Not you. Us. We can be wrong too- but at least we pay for our mistakes. You don't.

  • 45

    It's not ignoring complexity. It's called prioritizing. Averting a disastrous humanitarian crises (like the one unfolding in Zimbabwe with diseases, or what occurred in Bombay after the storms) takes precedent over stopping the rocket fire. I don't have many ideas on how to convince Hamas to quit firing rockets, but I know a bad one when I see one. Starving Gaza is a bad one.
    .
    When complexity morphs into excuses, people die. Sometimes the complexity needs to be disregarded if you're going to avert a humanitarian disaster. I see only logistical problems with getting humanitarian aide to the Palestinians, and I see only excuses by all the parties that are in direct control of Gaza access.
    .
    Want to know what happens when complexity gets in the way? Rwanda.
    .
    I also don't agree that Gaza will be a black hole of a failed state regardless of who is in charge. Gaza was not always what it is today. Economic activity within the Gaza strip has essentially ceased. If the situation cannot be stabilized for longer than three weeks at a time, then Gaza will never recover.
    .
    As for the Libyan ship: what ship nationality would Israel feel comfortable with? EU? US? UN? Let Libya give the aide directly to whatever nationality Israel deems adequate, and let that nationality deliver the aide by sea.
    .
    Or build another security fence on the north Gaza border, let Israel man it, and have the UN drop off supplies to Hamas. If the Palestinians don't get the supplies then it's truly the fault of Hamas.
    .
    Or perhaps someone could talk with Hamas without preconditions and organize some way of getting aide to the Palestinians. If Hamas says no then just drop the damn supplies from the air. Then Hamas can't claim the West and Israel are colluding to cause suffering among the Palestinian people.
    .
    Also, opening Egypt's border with Gaza should not be in Israel's interest because Israel does not control that crossing and Egypt can't secure it. Do we really need more militants and weapons getting smuggled into Gaza? No thanks. At least nothing is smuggled through Israel's crossings, and opening Israel's crossing to humanitarian aide is hardly "screwing up Israel" as you put it Jacob.
    .
    And Jacob, when you come down off your ivory tower, perhaps you'll see the starving Palestinian at its base. Or do you see every Palestinian as a terrorist?

  • 46

    "It's called prioritizing.Averting a disastrous humanitarian crises takes precedent over stopping the rocket fire."
    .
    Thank you for being honest. I disagree. So would you if you had the rockets falling on YOUR head. And if the people "starving" (which they arne't...yet) were the ones shooting the rockets.
    .
    "Want to know what happens when complexity gets in the way? Rwanda.".
    .
    I agree 100%. So stop making excuses and send 2 U.N infantry divisions into Gaza to disarm the Hamas, kill the rocket launching teams and stop all genocidal terrorist attacks against israel. Oh, you can't do that? The Muslim states will vote against it? The U.N troops will take casulties? Then I guess we will handle matters on our own. thanks.
    .
    "Or perhaps someone could talk with Hamas without preconditions".
    .
    We DID (via the Egyptians)- it resulted in a ceasefire... Which the Hamas just ended. I have a better Idea- p[erhaps you should demad that the Hamas talk to us DIRECTLY without preconditions instead as acting as their babysitter and enabler.
    .
    "Also, opening Egypt's border with Gaza should not be in Israel's interest because Israel does not control that crossing and Egypt can't secure it."
    .
    Egypt can. But it won't. No more weapons will be smuggled in if the Rafah crossing was opened to civilian commerce beacuse Egypt won't allow weapon smuggeling to rise over a certain level if we hang cutting off Gaza's water supply/Invasion over their heads. And ending our link with Gaza takes precedence over that anyway.
    .
    "also don't agree that Gaza will be a black hole of a failed state regardless of who is in charge. Gaza was not always what it is today. "
    .
    It will be if U.N aid is not linked to family planning, end of warfare with Israel and a rational plan of the economy (hint, less government jobs, more chinese style sweatshops). SInce the U.N has never laid any conditions on Aid to the Palestinians I don't see that happening anytime soon.

  • 47

    Two can play that game, Yoni.
    .
    Israelisms:
    .
    "We can defeat our enemies through pure military might."
    "Our enemies will only offer peace when threatened with extinction."
    "Arabs only understand strength."
    .
    Result:
    .
    An intractable conflict on two borders, five wars, nuclear proliferation, an occupation, mandatory military service for the survival of the country, and no end in sight.
    .
    Bottom line: Have you ever considered that YOU are wrong? Perhaps pushing people to the edge only causes them to fight harder. Perhaps isolating and condemning Hamas immediately after their election was not such a good idea. Perhaps the blockade of the Gaza strip is only exacerbating and prolonging the conflict.
    .
    And you're wrong. Israel is not the only country that deals with the consequences. The entire world has a vested interest in solving this abominable conflict, not just to eliminate a major source of suffering in the Middle East but to also assuage a prime source of contention between the Middle East and the West -- a contention that has wrought many terrorist attacks against Western countries, including the US. Don't tell me that this is none of our business. It very well is.

  • 48

    The real comparision to Rwanda- The U.N sending food to the Hutu dominated Rwandan government to prevent a humanitarian crisis (Food and land scarcity actually had a lot to do with the genocide) even as the Hutus are slaughtering the Tutsis and Hutu landowners and refusing to condition the aid on a end to the slaughter.

    Well, I guess that's not a good comparision because we are better armed and organized than the Tutsi and not a minority in our own state...

    Lesson: we'll keep it that way.

  • 49

    Perhaps I would feel differently if rockets were raining down on my head. But I'd also recognize that rockets are still raining down on my head despite a thousand closures of the crossings. Thus closing the crossings doesn't cause the rockets to stop. I don't want a humanitarian crisis for nothing.

    "So stop making excuses and send 2 U.N infantry divisions into Gaza to disarm the Hamas, kill the rocket launching teams and stop all genocidal terrorist attacks against Israel."

    Again with the military solutions. I already told you that I don't have any good ideas on how to stop the rocket attacks other than trying to convince Hamas it doesn't need to use rockets to address it's grievances. Hamas gets those rockets from somewhere. Perhaps it's not Hamas who we should be talking to.
    .
    Besides, ending a humanitarian crisis because someone can't get food or water is not the same situation as halting rocket attacks. Halting the rocket attacks involves solving the entire crisis. If it could be done easily it would have been done long ago. That's not an excuse. That's just reality.
    .
    As for talking with Hamas: it's pretty clear that Hamas can't control the groups shooting off rockets. Hamas may want a cease fire but they just couldn't enforce it. Instead of looking weak they may have just gone along with it. Somehow you need to find a way to enforce whatever peace/cease fire is established. UN perhaps? I dunno.
    .
    Regardless, the rocket fire and the lack of aide entering Gaza are not the same. One is infinitely easier to solve. Israel is trying to make the two seem linked when they shouldn't be.

  • 50

    Actually, those Israelisms, to the extent they ever existed, went totally out of style in the 90's. The result was Oslo.
    .
    The result of THAT was 1500 Israeli dead, a shock to the economy, and an army which had to convert to fight an imported urban gurreilla army armed under the cover of the treaty instead of training for war against conventional armies.
    .
    The result of crushing the Intifada in opposition to Shrill international complaints was a restoration of personal and economic security, freeing up the army to train back up to strength AND reducing Palestinain deaths in the West Bank to nill AND improving THEIR economic conditions.
    .
    So I guess I'll go with what works (and yes, I know that the occupation of the West Bank is not a permanent solution. But it will have to do for now until we find an effective deterrence to terrorism from Gaza).
    .
    The only "edge" the palestinians had ever been pushed to was accepting the camp David peace proposals or... continue unconditional negotiations without addtional unilateral concessions.
    .
    And the Hamas Government was NOT isolated immediately after elections. It was isolated after it:
    a. Rejected the oslo accords and Israel's right to exist.
    b. Continued and increased launching Rockets Vs Israel.
    c. Carried out a millitary Coup Vs the Fatah forces in Gaza.
    .
    The international community AND Israel all clearly stated that the isolation would end once the Hamas recognized Israel and the oslo accords.
    .
    As for the entire world dealing with the consequences of our actions...
    .
    Do you realy think the Mumbai attacks, Baslan, Somali piracy, Bali, or a host of other Muslim assaults on the rest of the world have ANYTHING to do with Israel?
    .
    Whatever links do exist between anti-Western terrorism and Israel boil down to the Arabs threatening you with terrorist attacks unless you hold us down so they can kill our civilians and troops.
    .
    Don't you see that since we will never be held down sufficiently to their satistfaction that you are simply opening yourself up to further blackmail by caving in? Increasing your intervention NEVER succesfuly reduced the attacks- it only increased them.
    .
    You may make a distinction between "humanitarian intervention" and "Promoting peace" and enabling the murder of Israeli civilians. They don't... And neither do the victims of the attacks you enabled.
    .
    You realy want to help? You realy want to end the suffering? Butt out. Say that the Hamas, Syria, Iran and the P.A will have to negotiate or fight with Israel on their own without mediation or intervention. There is a huge majority in israel that will accept almost ANY deal with them that will gurantee Israel as a Jewish state in whatever borders. But no such majority will form on the other side if the international community continues to shield them from the negative consequences of their actions.

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