Obama Mideast Watch: Rahm Emanuel
Barack Obama chose Rahm Emanuel to be his chief of staff not for his Middle East policy expertise but his Beltway experience and savvy. Nicknamed Rahmbo, Emanuel was Bill Clinton's scrappy White House political director--he taught that president the Hebrew word for balls, baytzim--and has served three terms in congress.
Yet, news of Emanuel's appointment is causing a stir in the Middle East. It's being met with some elation in Israel, a country that has been notably uneasy about an Obama presidency, and some despair in the Arab world, which had largely embraced Obama. An Oxford-educated Arab friend called Thursday night to ask me in a tone of deep disappointment, "Did you notice how in the span of 24 hours Egyptians went from being ecstatic to being depressed about Obama?" The Arab News in Jeddah, whose editorials are a good reflection of the Arab mainstream, did an astounding somersault on Friday. Just the previous day, the paper hailed the "symbol of hope and change" in the U.S., saying Obama's historic election "threatens the cosy Washington consensus. We are, therefore, embarking on exciting times." After hearing of Emanuel's appointment, the paper headlined its next editorial "Don't pin much hope on Obama." Arab expectations, the paper warned, "are likely to be dashed, generating a great deal of pain and resentment...The new team may turn out to be as pro-Israeli as the one it is replacing."
Arab disappointment aside, there's enough in Emanuel's background to raise a fair question of whether the key appointment of such a demonstratively pro-Israel figure is going to help or hurt the prospects for Obama's avowed plans to play an effective role in brokering Middle East peace. Obama promised to be actively engaged as an Israeli-Arab conciliator from Day One, a far cry better than President Bush, who ignored mediation for six years because he believed that Islamic terrorism and lack of Arab democracy were more serious problems to tackle. But many will be looking to see if Obama will avoid the excessive pro-Israel bias and attendant strategic asymmetry that Arab officials--and also some former U.S. diplomats--cite as one of the factors in the tragic, bloody collapse of the peace process during the Clinton administration. It's impossible and unfair to judge Obama's future Middle East policies on the basis of one appointment, especially when the job in question is not directly responsible for the Middle East. Still, for the Arab world, it's a dispiriting start to the Obama era in the region, anything but the hoped-for sign of greater American sensitivity and fairness toward the Arabs.
Emanuel's public views express backing for the peace process coupled with total support for Israel's security and distrust of Palestinians as well as Washington's traditional Arab allies. Atlantic magazine's Jeffrey Goldberg, who says "I've known Rahm for a long time," reports that "he is deeply and emotionally committed to Israel and its safety. We've talked about the issue a dozen times; it's something he thinks about constantly..." In customary, boilerplate praise in 2006, Emanuel called Israel "a vital ally of the United States since the beginning of its existence, sharing democratic values, friendship, and respect and enjoying a strategic partnership. American and Israel shall remain close friends for years to come." In a rare break with his famous partisanship, Emanuel lauded Bush's State Department for supporting Arab pro-democracy activists, decrying past U.S. policy that allowed "repressive regimes...such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia [to] receive a pass." In 2006, Emanuel was a vocal critic of Bush's decision to allow Dubai Ports World, a Dubai government-owned company, to manage operations at six U.S. ports. Not only would that endanger U.S. "safety and security," Emanuel said, but would enable the United Arab Emirates, a close U.S. ally, to "promote terrorism and violence against Israel" through its support of the Hamas government elected in Palestine at that time. As a condition to doing business with the U.S., Emanuel said, the UAE should be required to renounce its anti-Israel boycott. Intense congressional pressure eventually forced Dubai Ports World to abandon its plans, causing wide bitterness in the Arab world, including among Westernized moderates.
During the Clinton administration, Emanuel helped arrange the historic signing ceremony for the Oslo peace accords between Israel and the PLO at the White House in 1993. He accompanied Clinton to the Middle East for the Israeli-Jordanian peace agreement signing and Yitzhak Rabin's funeral. Recently, Emanuel personally escorted Obama last June when the Democratic candidate gave a strongly pro-Israel speech to the pro-Israel AIPAC lobby group in Washington and held a private meeting with AIPAC's Executive Board. Emanuel's father Benjamin was quoted in an article about Rahm headlined "Our Man in the White House" in the Israeli daily Ma'ariv last week, saying "Obviously he will influence the president to be pro-Israel. Why wouldn't he? What is he, an Arab? He's not going to clean the floors of the White House." Last week, Ha'aretz quoted U.S. Jewish leaders praising Emanuel's selection. William Daroff, director of the United Jewish Communities Washington office, said: "Rep. Emanuel is also a good friend of Israel, coming from good Irgun stock, davening at an Orthodox synagogue, and sending his children to Jewish day schools." But Ha'aretz also quoted an unnamed veteran Israeli diplomat saying Emanuel's association with Israel "doesn't necessarily bring him closer to us. One thing is certain--Israelis will not be able to pull the wool over his eyes."
What has most grabbed attention is Emanuel's various deep personal connections to Israel. His father Benjamin was born in Jerusalem, fought to establish the state and was an Israeli citizen before emigrating to the U.S. where Rahm was born in 1959. As a kid, Rahm went to summer camps in Israel. His father is quoted as saying Rahm continues to spend his summer vacations in Tel Aviv and speaks Hebrew though not fluently. Emanuel abruptly left his post on a Richard Daley mayoral campaign in Chicago and volunteered for service in the Israel Defense Force during the 1991 Gulf War. A 1997 Jerusalem Post story reported that Emanuel did menial work at a supply base in northern Israel. The Post quoted him saying that the experience was not a sacrifice but "something I wanted to do." The article also quoted fellow Daley campaign worker Peter Giangreco saying, "Here's a guy who, during a very, very, very important campaign to him and the city, said there's something bigger here. He takes loyalty and duty, and his beliefs, very seriously." In his presidential memoirs, Bill Clinton twice mentions that his aide had "served in the Israeli army."
Benjamin Emanuel, now an Illinois resident, is reported to have been a member of a Jewish nationalist "terrorist" organization, Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL). According to a 1997 NY Times profile of Rahm and two equally successful brothers, the Emanuel family name was originally Auerbach, but it was changed in a tribute to an uncle Emanuel Auerbach who was killed in a "skirmish with Arabs" in Jerusalem around 1933. The Times article said only that Benjamin "passed secret codes" for the Irgun. Benjamin told Ha'aretz that his son was named after "Rahamim," who the paper identified as a slain combatant belonging to Lohamei Herut Israel (LHI). Also known as the Stern Gang, LHI was an Irgun splinter group that carried out political assassinations in the name of Jewish nationalism, including those of the Swedish U.N. mediator Count Folke Bernadotte and British diplomat Lord Moyne.
For Palestinians and Arabs generally, the Irgun and Stern Gang are bitterly etched into their historical narrative as murderous terrorist organizations, not unlike the way that Israeli governments, most Israelis and much of the world have viewed the PLO and Hamas. Led by the future hard-line Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, the group fought for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine during the 1930s and 1940s. It's extreme views and tactics led it into regular conflict with Haganah, the mainstream Jewish paramilitary group that formed the basis for the future IDF. The Irgun's symbol was a hand grasping a gun over its map of Israel--the territory encompassing today's Israel, the West Bank and Kingdom of Jordan. The Haganah initially formed to defend Jews from attacks by Arabs, who were in violent revolt against British Mandate and Zionist movement actions to establish a Jewish homeland. Believing the British were in fact betraying Jews, militants who differed with the Haganah's policy of restraint broke away, formed the Irgun and launched spectacular terrorist attacks such as the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, then the British military HQ, which killed 92 people, as well as the kidnapping and murder of British soldiers. The group also played a violent role in terrorizing Arabs into fleeing cities and towns that the Zionist movement sought to include in a future Jewish state. The Irgun's actions included placing bombs in crowded Arab markets, indiscriminately bombarding civilians in Jaffa, the major Arab town adjoining the Jewish city of Tel Aviv, and the notorious Deir Yassin massacre.
Although accounts of what happened at Deir Yassin differ, there is general agreement that the Arab killings there in April 1948 significantly fueled the panic in which hundreds of thousands of Arabs left their homes and villages--whose "right of return" remains one of the bitterest points of dispute in more than 15 years of on-again, off-again Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations. In his landmark work on the Palestinian refugee problem, Israeli historian Benny Morris described Deir Yassin this way: "After a prolonged firefight, in which Arab family after family were slaughtered, the dissidents rounded up many of the remaining villagers, who included militiamen and unarmed civilians of both sexes, and children, and murdered dozens of them. Altogether some 250 Arabs, mostly non-combatants, were murdered; there were also cases of mutilation and rape. The surviving inhabitants were expelled to Arab-held East Jerusalem. The weight of the evidence suggests that the dissident group did not go in with the intention of committing a massacre but lost their heads during the battle, which they had found unexpectedly tough-going. It is probable, however, the the IZL and LHI commanders from the first had intended to expel the village's inhabitants."
--By Scott MacLeod/Cairo
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pf4818 - You should be careful in assuming that what Scott says about Deir Yassin represents what actually took place. I am not a historian and frankly had never even heard about deir yassin. however, I am bright enough to know that there is two sides to every story. For the other side see http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/deir_yassin.html
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jacobblues, eileenfleming, others:
my sincere apologies for the delays in posting some of your recent comments. as you may be aware, time.com recently switched over to a new blogging program. this program is automatically holding up some comments for a moderator, in this case, me, to review. I assume the filter is triggered by certain key words. there was no intention of censoring your opinions. contributions to the blog are appreciated. i'll try to get a better handle on this so when your comments are held up, they are released more promptly. thanks for your patience and understanding.
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Lisa (and all others),
Thanks very much for your thoughtful comment, and you raise some issues which I'll respond to.
The most important point, I certainly did not accuse Rep. Emanuel of loyalty to Israel rather than to the United States. I fully agree with you that he is a fine American who has loyally served his country. Barack Obama's choice of Emanuel for such an important post is a deserving reflection of his record of public service.
Nor did I "condemn" Emanuel for his father's activities. In the part of my post focusing on Rahm's record, I noted that he publicly supports the peace process, and participated at a high level in the Israel-PLO and Israel-Jordanian peace agreement signings. I had not been able to locate a fuller statement of his views on the peace process or I would have included them (if you have them, please post them here) but I believe what I wrote accurately describes his fundamental support for Israeli-Arab peace.
I would respectfully ask you to review the material described in the post in the context I presented—this was a look at how the Arab world viewed Emanuel's appointment to the top staff position in the White House. If Obama had appointed Rashid Khalidi as White House chief of staff, or indeed to almost any other position, I do imagine that many people would be discussing his PLO affiliation quite a lot. Some of Israel's supporters in Washington, as well as Rahm's father himself, seem to believe that his appointment will be to Israel's benefit. Emanuel's work as an IDF volunteer and his father's reported Irgun background don't make him “un-American” in any sense, or unfit to hold a job in the White House, but they do illuminate his emotional commitment to Israel that others have noted. I don't imagine you would argue that bio info is none of the public's business.
It's a historical fact, as you suggest, that Arabs have committed atrocities against Jews and Israelis going back 100 years. I felt that the piece of information about Irgun and Deir Yassin is important to show readers the special context in which many Palestinians and Arabs—rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly-- are viewing Emanuel and his appointment. Just as the UJC's William Daroff hailed Emanuel's “good Irgun stock” as a badge of honor, many in the Middle East see it very differently. For Arabs, Deir Yassin was not just another battle or incident, but remains a powerful symbol of all that they grieve for and continue to fight for. For what it's worth, and you may disagree, but I don't think the conflict will ever be solved, for the benefit of Israelis and Palestinians alike, until both peoples understand and relate to the historical narratives of the other.
In laying out how Emanuel's appointment is being viewed here, my sole critique of it was to raise what I believe is a valid question of whether the appointment of such as partisan pro-Israel figure will help or harm Obama's stated plan to reinvigorate the peace process. Several former American negotiators have pointed out the need to have a more balanced approach to negotiations if the U.S. role is going to be effective and actually facilitate the peace that will benefit both sides, Israelis as well as Palestinians. In the first sentence of my post, I point out that Emanuel was selected for his Washington skills, not for his Middle East expertise (or connections). I go on to indicate that we'll have to see the main Middle East policy appointments before we can really judge and critique Obama's direction.
Yet, it's not like the White House chief of staff is some file clerk with zero impact on governing, so the appointment was worth discussing in the context of Middle East issues. I agree with you that Emanuel and Khalidi are in roughly similar positions with similar backgrounds as Americans who have strong attachments to one side or another in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute stemming at least partly from their family's backgrounds. The difference, which both Emanuel's supporters and detractors have noted, is that Khalidi is not going to be the White House chief of staff and Emanuel is.
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Thank you for your reply Scott,
"In laying out how Emanuel's appointment is being viewed here, my sole critique of it was to raise what I believe is a valid question of whether the appointment of such as partisan pro-Israel figure will help or harm Obama's stated plan to reinvigorate the peace process."
This could arguably (and I would have plenty of arguments...) be claimed to be a valid argument if Ram was appointed seceretary of state or special envoy to the Middle East. But if a president must filter out any "Pro-zionist" candidates from an internal position like chief of staff in order to avoid Arab anger then there IS no position in the "inner circle" a pro-Israeli American can fill... which means you have effectively ruled out 60%+ of Americans- and nearly all of the American Jews. Way to go.
"I agree with you that Emanuel and Khalidi are in roughly similar positions with similar backgrounds as Americans who have strong attachments to one side or another in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute"
No. they are not. One was an active supporter of a terror organization when it WAS a terror organization attacking American, as well as Israeli, targets. he is a harsh critic the U.S role in the world and justifies terror attacks on it. Another voluneered to help Israel when it's civilian cities came under attack by an enemy of the U.S who was threatening to use chemical and biological weapons on Israel-with no provocation.
If Khalid's "pro-Palestinian" history was confined to helping palestinians displaced by the Gulf war (nearly 1 million kicked out by Saudi-Arabia and other gulf states for supporting Saddam...) Then maybe the positions would be equivalent.
As for rehashing Deir Yassin ad infinitum over half of a blof devoted to An American chief of staff who was born (in America) 20 years after 1948 under the cover of "portraying Arab opinion"...
Come on. The connection between Ram and Deir Yassin is non-existent. And from what I read in the Arab press not even our good neighbors made it. If you DO have any Arab paper which did I would be glad to read it.
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Finally, suggesting that expressing solidarity with a country that comes under continuous missile attacks in retaliation to a war being waged by the U.S and various Arab allies (including Syria and other "allies" who refuse to recognize Israel) with the total support of the U.N is somehow a strike against him..... If somebody takes months off his VERY busy political schedule to do unglamorous grunt work as a show of support that is a BAD thing?
If the Arabs think so, if they that expressing support for a country under that sort of attack (by someone who invaded another Arab country and whom they were fighting no less!) means that they have a right to dismiss the president who appointed him as "anti-Arab" then they got some Chutzpa.
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[...] η νέα ομάδα στο Λευκό Οίκο του Μπαράκ Ομπάμα θεωρείται βέβαιο ότι θα συνεχίσει την στρατηγική σθεναρής στήριξης του [...]
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Furthermore Scott, Khalidi is not backed by AIPAC or any organization who is remotely influential.
I'm not going to sit here and say Obama has already let some Arabs (Arab-Americans?) down, but having Rahm Emmanuel as Chief of Staff is not very promising as far as the peace process is concerned. The Middle East problems are not going to be solved by simple measures or in a short time. But the glimmer of hope that a fresh, new Presidency brought is starting to fade as more anti-Arab "Emmanuel" sentiments surface.
And seriously, enough with God's chosen people. As a Christian, my God told me to love my neighbor, and treat others like I would want to be treated. "Arab crimes against jews" were not unilateral. They were a response to the flagrant terrorism the Palestinian people face in the Occupied Territories. The Israelis have done their fair share of slaughtering civilians.
Rahm Emmanuel or no Rahm Emmanuel, the US is never going to change its policies towards unconditional support for Israel. It would be nice however, to have a tempered, even-handed player in the office every once in a while. One can dream. -
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And YBoxman, I highly recommend you go Beyond the Chutzpah, by Dr Finkelstein.
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Yoni-
First, the White House Chief of Staff is not just some obscure position in Washington that nobody pays attention to. The Chief of Staff is the second highest ranking official in the executive branch and considered by many to be the second most powerful man in Washington. Everything that goes to the president goes through the chief of staff first. He controls agendas and meetings, he sets the presidents schedule, he shepherds policies through the plumbing, he advises the president, he controls access to the president, and he picks senior white house staffers. This is not just another desk job in the white house. It's perfectly legitimate to discuss the ideology of such an influential position.
Secondly, attempting to differentiate between terrorist and non-terrorist organizations based on whether their terrorist actions were justified is illogical and fatuous. Recognizing when an organization has used (or continues to use) terrorism in pursuit of its goals is prudent and purposeful, but the labeling of individuals and groups with absolute terms such as terrorist and terrorist organization, without acknowledging the subjective and pejorative nature of the descriptions, is simply insidious and wrong. The use of the label terrorist has become a weapon itself. A successful attachment to your enemy delegitimizes and criminalizes their actions, garnering you the moral high ground and renewed support for the “victim”, while your enemy becomes the abhorrent aggressor regardless of circumstance. That's not objectivity, its opinionated politics.
Irgun used terrorist tactics in pursuit of its goals. You identify with their struggle and thus view their actions in a more favorable light. The PLO has also used terrorism, yet you view them as morally devoid. If you want to have a discussion on which organization is more terroristic than the other, or which organization has committed more heinous crimes than the other, I'll pass. Debating which side has more moral capital than the other is part of why the peace process has been stalled for so long. And no, Khalidi does not openly support the killing of US civilians.
Thirdly, are you saying Rahm Emanual doesn't have close ties to Israel, or are you saying that his close ties to Israel don't matter? If you are saying the former, you need to drink a strong cup of coffee and put on some stronger glasses. If you are saying the later, I whole heartedly disagree. Appearances can sometimes matter a whole lot more than substance. But as I posted on the topic before this one, it remains to be seen how much influence Rahm will have, how hawkish or dovish his views will be, and whether he will choose to take an active role in the peace process or not. I have not heard him speak directly, or in depth, about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but most active AIPAC members are hawkishly pro-Israel and Rahm is a very active AIPAC member.
The US needs to maintain an air of nuetrality in the process. If Obama had picked such a definitely pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel person for Chief of Staff, I would be equally critiquing his positions. But for now, I will assume that most policy will be controlled directly by Obama (he is sort of a control freak after-all), and Obama did not pick Rahm for his views about the Middle East. It is likely that this will become a non-issue if Rahm can convince Arab peace players that he can remain nuetral.
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Jacob -
For christ's sake. This is a blog about the MIDDLE EAST, not WASHINGTON. If you want an analysis about the politics side of Rahm's appointment, go visit TIME's POLITICS blog, Swampland. They have plenty of posts about this, I assure you. I've read them.
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Scott, we seem to be addressing one another in parallel lines; I should have made myself clearer. Acknowledging one another's narratives is indeed an essential element of conflict resolution. I am quite aware that Deir Yassin is a powerful symbol for Palestinians in particular, and Arabs in general - just as I am aware that the 1929 Hebron massacre remains a powerful symbol for Jews. In both cases, I think it would be healthier simply to acknowledge the past and move on. But that is not the point here.
The point is that you were very critical of the McCain campaign's attacks on Khalidi's background, but rather more understanding of the Arab media's attacks on Emanuel's background. The criticism of Emanuel in the popular Arab media have been characterized by flat-out Jew baiting of a sort that would never be tolerated in the Western media, but you don't mention this in your post.
I believe in certain universal values - i.e., that ad hominem attacks are wrong, no matter what the context.
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""Arab crimes against jews" were not unilateral. They were a response to the flagrant terrorism the Palestinian people face in the Occupied Territories."
"Arab crimes against the Jews" predated the 1967 occupation. Or the foundation of Israel. Or Irgun attacks (which only started in 1937 after three major bloodbaths in 1922, 1929 and 1936-1939. Until 1937 ALL Jewish organizations stuck to passive defense). Or the Zionist enterprise for that matter. And they continued and intensified when Israel attempted to END the occupation by negotiations in 2000 and unilaterally in 2006.
But all this has nothing to do with the subject of this blog.
The question was:
is the appointment of a native American Jewish politician who:
a. Supports Israel's right to exist
while
b. Strongly supporting the peace process and associated Israeli territorial concessions.To an INTERNAL adminstaration position which has next to nothing to do with foreign policy a sign that that the Obama administartion is "anti-arab" or biased in it's approach to potential peace negotiations?
I would say that suggesting that this is the case is so irrational as to constitute pure anti-Israeli fanaticism.
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The definition of a fanatic: someone who is sure god would agree with him if he just had all the facts...
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I highly recommend for people to start learning about "what really happened"
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/Also, what is "still happening"...
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/191066.phpAnd most importantly, as to "why" Americans should be "very concerned" about it...
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0971734704/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 -
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bsaber..this one is specifically for you dear, and it's very important that you watch all of it "to the end"...
ps.. "think hard now"
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/191066.php -
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An example of a fanatic:
misericordiael Says:
"Tuesday, November 11, 2008 at 3:16 am
Listen to the Lord. The Voice of the Lord is pure, clear and limpid as His Works.
The Lord has spoken. Write. I shall destroy all the works of My enemies and I shall put up My Tent among you. I shall build this World where the young shoot grows freely, where the animal does not perish by a criminal hand, and where the child, in his tender age, will follow Me. I no longer want anyone to succumb to Evil.
After this Time, Peace shall return. You shall know misfortune no more. But God does not want man to know what he will do with His Earth before the appointed time.
As I did to Lazarus, I will give it Life again: "Earth! Come out of your tomb, where man has thrown you; you, the Mother that fed them".
Then My Sacred and Holy Heart shall look back no more and will dwell on the present moment being reborn of its ashes: Fire has purified all the Earth. Happy those who will come to inhabit it. I shall cause to come down from the skies, all those whom I have protected for the New Times, and the Earth shall be populated again with all its citizens who, like her, will be transformed. Happy those who obeyed and followed Me, for Joy is now at their door and in their dwelling, guarded by My Angel.
As sure as I made Heaven and Earth, as sure as the Heavens are far away from the Earth, I pledge that My children, will do evil no more. That is why My choice will be thus.
No animal shall be killed any longer, not for your pleasure, nor for your food. I shall give you the fruits of the earth and you will have no need to worry about tomorrow. You shall have what you need, and I shall remove from anyone all inclination to get more than what is needed for one day. The Hand of the Lord knows Sharing, and I will see to it regularly...."And please, as long as we bring up "what happened and what is happening", let's not forget the thousands of Lebanese killed in 2006, innocent people who had nothing to do with Hezbollah, the billions of dollars incurred upon the Lebanese government (who has been trying to get Hezbollah disarmed) by the utter destruction of infrastructure by Isralei jets in 2006, and the hundreds of innocent children killed in Qana, twice.
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bsaber, they are trying to remove the video...try this new link
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d83_1202168480 -
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Stillwaters, I can't see anything. The page is not loading.
I'd like for it to be known however that I don't support terrorism-by anybody. Not Arab, and not Israeli, and not Congolese or Sudanese. I'm not sure what the post was about, but I don't support jihadis or the killing of innocent people, whatever ethnicity they belong to. I'm just driving the point that Israel is not always right, and the Arabs are not always wrong. The people on both sides of the conflict suffer greatly, and I think it should end, by resuming the peace process that grants the Palestinians their very basic human rights, and the Israelis peace of mind. -
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Oh I see you are a "confused christian" who "chooses" to overlook how "the creator" of the universe(a.k.a THE ONE TRUE GOD OF ISRAEL) said in the "old testament" that "he does NOT change"..which means his covenant with the Jewish people & the land of Israel has NOT changed either. God, your creator, promised that he would bring the Jewish people back to their land. So when you have a problem with the way Jews are behaving in their land, then I strongly advise you to "let God handle it" because he doesn't need your help in discipling his people(any more than he "needed" the Nazi's "help"). People have free will, so choose wisely. There are some christians out there who actually understand what I am saying here--> http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0971734704/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
Ps...Jesus was "A JEW."
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bsaber, first of all, sorry to come off so blunt, but I feel very passionate about what I say and see no other way but to be honest with that. You probably are a good person, but unfortunaltey, misguided. I hope that you will give what I am saying much thought & pray about it. I think it's an important enough matter to pray about. In all sincerity, I wish nothing but the best for you.
ps...use this link, give it a few seconds to upload after you click on it, I just checked, it worked for me.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d83_1202168480 -
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Stillwaters, why are you attacking me? I never brought up Jesus and I never said my Christianity dictated my political views. I am entitled to my own opinions as you are to yours. I never said however, that jews needed to be disciplined, and I don't support Nazis!! Just because I think too many innocent people have suffered, and I would like to see serious efforts being made towards a peaceful solution you're going to tell me I'm misguided?
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You are misguided because you don't believe this to be the truth about what is going on in the middle east "what really happened"...
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/
After viewing the above link, please explain to me "how" there can be "peace" in the middle east? Do you understand that if Israel gives over anymore land (or God forbid divides Jerusalem) as the so-caleed "peace process" plans to do, it will be like Israel committing suicide. But "watch" because the God of Israel will NOT allow it, we will witness divine intervention. Actually the Yom Kippur War of 1973 was a miracle, but few people realize it, (there is literature out there about this, google it if you'd like) and to think that the Yom Kippur War was only a "warm up" to what is yet still to come.
Review my links again if you must. You have free will and you can choose to cast your lot with the Jewish people (like Ruth did) or not...that is up to you. Jews do not launch "Jihad" in order to force others to submit to their beliefs, nor do they believe (or try to tell) others that they are going to burn in hell if they do not convert to Judaism. But they do have a right to live in their God-given land AND push those out who DO NOT want to live with them peacefully.
If I forget thee, O Jerusalem,
Let my right hand forget her cunning.
Let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth,
If I remember thee not;
If I set not Jerusalem Above my chiefest joy.
"PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM"
PSALM 122:6 (that means "true" peace rather than the "false" peace which we are being offered by the political leaders of America AND ISRAEL today! Don't think today's Israeli leaders are getting full support from their people, because they are not. If you want to follow what the "Torah Jews" in Israel really think about their corrupt leadership, then follow this news site for "accurate" news from the middle east/Israel. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/ (note: they do not report news on the Shabbat/Sabbath day.) -
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I will review your links. But if you're building your case on the basis of religion and hundred year old prophecies, then I'll tell you, THAT's why there cannot be peace in the middle east. Anymore land? What a joke.
I had so much more respect for your political opinions before you started speaking for God. -
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bsaber, just to correct what I said earlier via the 1973 Yom Kippur War, yes, there were recorded miracles that took place in that war as well, however, I meant to refer to the 1967 war. To this day, military analysts can not study(figure out) "how" Israel won that war, and so it remains a "mystery." But I won't talk about God and refer to anything such as, "miracle" from now on because you stated that you have no respect for such. I can always refer to such things as a "mystery" and/or "coincidence" if that wording works any better for you?
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oh and one more thing.. I did not mean to imply that I was "playing God" I was going off of what the Torah says and what history is turning out to prove...but of course the whole completed story did not reveal itself, "yet." Be patinet and have some faith, sheesh, I would think that if "some" Jews could do it after 2000+ years of exile, progroms, holocaust, etc..then it is not "impossible" for you do do it as well? But you are right, thats not the point, this is political. But I always thought Jerusalem was a "holy" place unlike any other place on earth? And I wonder can we really apply "politics" to it? Well, it looks like we are going to find out soon because this is the first time since the "peace process" started, that we now have discussion (and plans of man) to divide Jerusalem.
- TIME Why old toys are still best | http://su.pr/9vrXGI - 44 minutes ago
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